I started the Neurodiverging podcast in 2020, right before the pandemic. It evolved into a coaching business with multiple coaches, writers, and tech support. We serve clients who are neurodivergent or have accessibility needs. Today, I want to discuss running a business that prioritizes the accessibility needs of employees and clients.
Contents
- 1 Transcript: How to Make Your Business Neurodivergent-Friendly
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Transcript: How to Make Your Business Neurodivergent-Friendly
Thanks to n. henderson for transcribing!
DANIELLE: Hello my friends, and welcome back to the Neurodiverging Podcast! I’m so glad that you’re here with us today. My name’s Danielle Sullivan and I am your host. I am an autistic person, the head of Neurodiverging Coaching, and a parent to two wonderful neurodivergent kiddos. Today I wanna talk to you a little bit about business. So, as some of you know, I started the Nueurodiverging Podcast right before the pandemic started, about a month before the pandemic started in 2020, and then that quickly sort of bloomed into a coaching business, and now we work with several other coaches as well as myself, several writers, some tech support, and a variety of different people. We also, obviously, are a service-oriented business, so we work with actual clients, many of whom are neurodivergent, disabled, or otherwise a person with accessibility needs.
What I would love to talk about today is my perspective of how to run a business where you’re putting the accessibility needs of your employees and contractors first, as well as running a business from the side of how to create practices that are inclusive to clientele with a diversity of needs.
Before I dig into this too much, I just want to say thank you as always to my amazing patrons. You can join us on Patreon anytime you like at Patreon.com/Neurodiverging. You pledge a certain amount a month depending on your budget and you can get access to behind-the-scenes content, podcast downloads with no ads in them, you can get access to group coaching content, and lots of other cool stuff. So I hope that you will join us over there if you would like to. Again, that’s patreon.com/neurodiverging.
Neurodiverging Values and Approach to Business
But first of all a couple of small disclaimers: I would like to say that I am not a trained business person. I have done lots of research, I have obviously worked for other folks and managers and businesses before including small businesses and I have learned a lot from them, but I, like, didn’t go to school for business. So I have no idea how what I’m saying is gonna fit in with sort of traditional practices. The other thing I want to say is we are a very, very small business and we’re I think a little different than other small businesses in that income generation is not actually our bottom line. We’re set up as a sliding scale practice, which means that when we have clients who can pay more on the sliding scale, that money goes right back down and funds lower-income clients or our ability to pay our coaches to work with lower-income clients, because we think that people should have access to coaching resources regardless of their current income level.
And so, the way that we’re set up is not really functional in the sense that we’re trying to generate a lot of income and we’re trying to, like, keep the bottom line. What we’re really trying to do is pay our coaches and our contractors and all the other folks we work with a living wage and also support as many neurodivergent clients as we can. In that sense, I’m aware that some of what we do is not gonna follow traditional business paradigms, because our goals are wildly different.
And, at the same time, the reason we’re not a nonprofit despite having lots of similar, I guess, interests as a nonprofit would is that we don’t really want to be beholden to, you know, investors and grants and the people who fund those kinds of things. We want to be able to be facile, to be able to use the money we make in the way that we think is the best fit for the needs of the clientele we’re serving, and that’s no shade on nonprofits. It’s really hard in a capitalist society to do good work, and I think in many ways the path forward needs to look like a mix of — at least immediate, the immediate path forward against capitalism needs to look like a mix of mutual aid support and also charity support, though, personally, I politically hope that one day we will no longer have need of charity organizations and nonprofits as they are set up now and will be a functional community of people.
All that aside, some of what I’m gonna say is not gonna work for you if you’re running a small business with your main intent being, you know, to make millions of dollars a year, right? Like that’s not what we’re here to do. Or if we did (laughs) a lot of it would go to the underserved folks that we’re here to serve. Okay.
Neurodivergent Staffing Norms
The second thing I just want to say is that we employ self-identified fully neurodivergent staffing. So, all of our writers, all of our tech people, all of our coaches are self-identified neurodivergent folks. In a larger business that’s probably not gonna be a reasonable thing to go for. It works for us because we’re very small and we’re very much prioritizing the neurodivergent population. We would hire non-neurodivergent people if the need arose, but so far, as we’ve been expanding and because we’re a very small business, the work that we’re doing kind of requires a neurodivergent touch right now, right?
So, in many places — How do I want to say this? That the same way that a fully neurotypical culture excludes neurodivergent folks, it is very possible that a fully neurodivergent culture is going to exclude neurotypical people. So, what’s working for us now may not work as we grow, and we may need to change our practices, but for now, our goal is, well, neurotypical people have lots of other coaching structures that are set up to support them as employees and as clients. We are set up to support neurodivergent people, first. And to refer folks who don’t fit into our structure to other systems that will support them, okay? We still want everyone to get support, but we’re not gonna be the match for everybody, and we know that, okay? So with all that stuff out of the way, let me dig into this.
How We Support Neurodivergent Workers
So first, let me talk about what we do as kind of an “employer”. So right now we work mostly with contractors. We are not big enough or steady enough as a practice, we’re not making enough income, we don’t have enough in savings, we’re still a pretty new business, to have employees and have benefits and everything. So our basic goal right now is to offer a living wage to all of our — everybody. That living wage varies a bit depending on where everybody lives because we do employ folks within the United States as well as outside the United States because we work with clients worldwide, so we need to have a diversity of schedules available and hours in the day available to offer our clientele, okay?
So, our priority is to pay people fairly, as best we can, with the funds we have, and also to divert enough of that funding to support our lower-income people as well. So most of our funds go to paying our coaches and our writers and our other staffing, okay? Some of the policies we have in place to support neurodivergent workers are, obviously, we are a remote, online business. This means that people can work from their homes. Okay? They can work from their parents’s house or their daughter’s house. They can go to a park and meet with a client on the phone.
They have a lot of flexibility, as long as they are providing good service to their client all the coaches — and obviously the writers — have a lot of flexibility in how they decide what that looks like for them, okay? If they can get out of bed that day or not. If they can handle a Zoom but would prefer a phone call. If they need to be moving while they are working with a client. Some of us, right, we need to be walking in order to process our thoughts and especially to verbalize our thoughts, or if they need to be sitting.
All of these things are things that coaches have flexibility to decide for themselves. And obviously, the writers and the tech people are given projects and then are going to fulfill those projects as they see fit, right? And we are here to support if they need support on that, but otherwise, it’s a little bit more flexible because it’s not as service-oriented, okay?
Other things we do to support people are we are super flexible if people wanna go on vacation. Just let us know, just let your client know, let me know if you need help. If you have a health issue and you need me to pop in to support your client that week, if your client’s having a strong issue but you as the coach are having also an issue, we’re there to back each other up, so there’s some expectation that we might be filling in for coaches if they’re sick, and sick includes burnt out, overwhelmed, having a medical issue but also your kid is having a medical issue. We want to give people as much flexibility as we possibly can.
And I’ve talked before in other podcasts, I’ll link some in the notes, that I don’t think remote work is for everybody, but I think it offers a lot of flexibility for a lot of neurodivergent people. And we also, obviously, encourage our coaches to engage in accountability practice or co-working or any other kinds of support that they need to get their work done. And sometimes that means we’ll all get on a call together and just work, right? Or that they might have a friend that they used to work with or that they might go to an office co-space in their city, right? But again, it’s up to them to know what’s gonna work best for them, and I’m gonna offer support if I can, but, you know, these are adult people who are professionals and very capable in their jobs. They don’t really need a lot of help, they need the flexibility, that’s what they need. Okay.
How to Be Accessible to Neurodivergent Clients
Competing Access Needs
Now I would love to talk about how we’ve set up our business to be more accessible for neurodivergent clients. First of all, competing access needs exist. So what we have done is we have set up a system where we have tried to be as flexible and as responsive to individual client needs as we possibly can. That said, we’re not gonna be able to work with every single person, because every single person’s needs are so different. For example, we’re a remote practice, we work online. Some people are gonna do a lot better with a coach who’s sitting right in the same room as them, right? And in those cases we will work with a client to refer them, basically, to another practice in their area that we think will be a good fit, right? But we’re probably gonna say, “Hey,” you know, “we don’t have a coach in your area, we’re not gonna be able to do it in person just because you want us to.”
So in that way, we’re not claiming to and we’re not really expecting to ever be accessible to everyone. I think that is a… impossible dream. Competing access needs exist. Competing access needs exist. So, what we’ve done is we’ve created a bunch of policies and structures to support as many different kinds of people as we possibly can, and we know that we’re not gonna be able to do it for everybody, and we are going to refer people to other practices to the, like, hundreds of other amazing neurodivergent coaches and other professionals that exist, just in, like, Colorado, much less all across the world, okay? There’s lots of other practices and there’s gonna be one for you, even if we’re not it, okay?
Equity Pricing as a Sliding Scale Practice
Knowing that, here are some things that we have done to make accessibility broader for our clientele. First of all, and I already mentioned this, we offer a sliding scale. Now, there’s lots of reasons that offering a sliding scale is not doable for each and every coach. So this is something we’ve chosen to do and prioritize. It makes complete sense to me having now run a business for a couple years why some people can’t offer a sliding scale. It is really hard to make financial planning decisions when you don’t know how much money is coming in per quarter, per year, whatever. That said, we have this underlying value at Neurodiverging of social justice and of trying to contribute to social justice in every way we can.
And for us, part of upholding that value of social justice is to uphold the value of economic justice and to recognize that there is a lot of economic disparity that is based on other systems of inequity in the world. So people’s race might affect what they can be trained for and what kind of money they can make. People’s gender can obviously affect what they can be trained for, what kind of money they can make. If there’s been a history in your family of immigration, of enslavement, of poverty, that’s gonna affect your access to financial ability right now. That’s gonna affect your access to economic resources, right? Rather than if you were in a family that had not had poverty in the past couple of generations. Had been situated in their homestead for a long, long time.
If there’s illness or medical challenges or mental health challenges in your family, that might affect, say, your ability to go to a four-year college because you were home supporting your mother or your kids or your little sister, right? And so now you’re not gonna make as much money. So for us part of tackling some of the systemic issues that happen in our culture, and especially around neurodivergence, right? Many of us are disabled, many of us can’t work 40 hours a week, many of us have other medical challenges, many of us can’t get on in a traditional workplace, et cetera and so forth and so forth and so forth, many of us are lower-income people. That’s just how it is.
I don’t have the statistics in front of me, I would say maybe, off the top of my head, probably 70% of the folks who contact us are folks who are getting in touch with us, maybe not primarily but probably secondarily or tertiarily, (laughs softly) because we run a sliding scale. Because they believe that they can get access to resources for not millions of dollars, okay? So that sliding scale is a huge part of supporting economic justice for us, and it’s why we run a little differently and why the folks who can pay a higher level on that scale really do support a lot of folks at the bottom, so that we can continue to pay our coaches a living wage and it doesn’t detract from their quality of life, either.
Reducing Bureaucracy and Paperwork
The second thing we do different from what I’ve seen other people do is how we take intake information. So, we’re not medical professionals but we keep an amount of information about our clients on file for all sorts of reasons, right? So we, like, we need your name, we need that you’re over 18, we obviously need your payment information though that goes through a payment processor and we don’t see it we still need you to plug it in, right? So that you can pay us. So there is information that we need to collect.
That said, I have found, and especially when I started I was guilty of this too, I have found that most coaches and other sorts of consultants when they’re working with an individual request way too much information to be filled out on a paper form before they’ll even see the client for the intake, right? So what we have done is we have minimized the paper load on the intake as much as we possibly can. So first of all the way our process works is most people will do a discovery call where they’ll meet with me or one of the other coaches on Zoom or on the phone for 20 minutes and we’ll talk and see if it’s a good fit. If we think it’s a good fit, then I’ll send the client the intake form and they will fill it back and send it back to us and that will sort of get them going on working with us, okay?
The intake form we have currently right now is about six pages. It’s still too long, it’s the best I can do. Most of it — It’s about, I think, three pages that you have to fill out, and then the other three pages are mostly policy, right? Like this is how we handle x, this is how we handle y, this is how we handle z. Because I think transparency is really important and so I don’t want to, like, not give you those policies.
But it is still — We’re asking you to fill out basically your basic information, you know, your name, your address, and then an emergency support person in case something happens when we’re on the call with you and you’re in, I don’t know, France, and we’re in the United States and we want to make sure you get help, right? So we have that emergency person on there, and then we have, you know, a little bit about why you’re seeking coaching at this time because we need that to match you with the coach who’s going to work with you. And we have a little bit of information about the schedule because we need to know when you’re free so we can match you with a coach who’s also free at those times and who’s not like completely across the planet from you, right?
So that’s the information we ask for. We are different in that we’ve, like I said, reduced what you have to do. We’ve reduced the executive function you have to have in order to fill out this big long thing in order to get started with us as best we can. We also accept, we accept a written version, we also accept an audio version. So if writing is really challenging for you for whatever reason you can send in a video or an audio clip of you reading the thing and telling me the information, we will transcribe it onto the form for you, we will have you approve it. Okay? And that way that makes it easier for folks for whom reading is really challenging or for whom the form itself is anxiety-provoking because it feels like a big deal.
A third thing that we will offer is that one of us will sit down with you while you fill out the form. If it’s overwhelming to even look at the thing or if reading is hard but, you know, audio processing is fine then we will read the form with you and help you either fill it out yourself or we’ll fill it out for you and, again, give you the copy to review before it’s submitted, okay?
We’ll also help tell a support person on your side, so if you have a friend, or a parent, or a partner who’s helping you gill out the form we’ll talk to them. You know, we’re happy to schedule a call with them if they want with you there or with you not there if you don’t want to deal with it and we will get you filled out that way, okay? So these are all ways that we can take in information that is flexible, is meant to be accessible, and we’re also always open to hearing if clients are having a challenge what we could be doing to make that easier for them.
Some things we’re not gonna be able to do, right? There are, like, legal challenges to things, there are reasons that sometimes we need information in writing or, you know — but there’s a lot of information that coaches and medical people, psychology people, whatever, they ask for, and like, they’re gonna look at it one time before they meet you the first time and they’re probably never gonna look at it again and I don’t mean to be rude about it, but it’s, like, the truth, right? And we’re gonna look at your thing more than once, but we also don’t need 10 pages about your medical history in order to work with you, personally, as a coach, right? Some coaches might be different, they might actually need different things. You can ask your actual person about that.
Don’t Charge Punitive Fees
Other things that we do different policy-wise, we have a lot of different policies that are designed to be more accessible for neurodivergent people. We do not charge missed appointment fees and we do not charge for no-shows. I used to when I started as a coach and I think this happens to a lot of people, right? Sometimes you end up working with people who don’t take your time seriously and who don’t value you and what happens is they’ll miss appointments and not even bother to tell you. So what I did is I had a missing appointment fee where if you didn’t show up or if you canceled within 24 hours prior to the scheduled date, I would charge a fee.
What I found is that there are maybe one in 100 clients who actually don’t respect my time (laughs) as a coach, right? Or my coaches’ time, right? But what I found happened more often was that people were missing appointments because they have actual challenges in their life, like, people are people. So they’re missing appointments with their coach because their kid got sick or because they had to go to the hospital or because their friend was suicidal. Something happened, right?
These folks, on the whole, do not need to be worried about missing appointment fees, right? It is not their priority. And because many of our clients are also on sliding scale, it’s like why am I going to impede your financial security further because you missed an appointment with me because your friend was in the hospital? That is not (laughs) equality in action, that is not social justice in action. So we got rid of missed appointment fees, and let me tell you that the vast majority of our clients do not miss appointments, and when they do it is because there is an actual reason, okay?
The other thing I worried about as a coach when I started out about people missing appointments, and I still have this in the paperwork if you go and you download the intake form and you look at it, it says something like, “Don’t no show to an appointment just because you didn’t do the homework or just because it feels hard. Still come to the appointment and talk to your coach about it,” because a lot of times it feels hard because you’ve hit an actual barrier and our job, our job my friends, is to help you when you hit the actual barrier. So if we don’t know you hit the barrier we cannot help you, right? So, still show up to the appointment, and I mean that with all my heart and that is still a very strong piece of what I tell clients when we’re doing our get-to-know-you and our setting intention together.
That said, if you are burnt out, if you did not sleep last night, if you are deeply overwhelmed by something else that’s going on in your life and the coaching appointment is not going to help and you need to cancel, you cancel. You take a nap, instead. I have told clients this so many times. If you have a migraine, no-show on me. If you fell asleep, text me later and let me know you’re okay, but it’s alright. Like, if that happened, then you needed that to happen.
Now if a client does that, like, four times in a row I might have a conversation with them, right? About can we — Is there a barrier that’s stopping you from accessing coaching right now, like is the timing bad, would it be better to do a phone call instead of a Zoom so you could be walking around while you’re doing it? Should we cancel our current appointments and come back in two months when whatever is going on with you has sort of opened up a little bit and you have more capacity, right?
So, we’re still gonna protect our time as coaches and I don’t want to waste my time, I don’t want to waste my other coaches’ time, and it is a financial drain if somebody no-shows a bunch of times because, obviously, another client could have taken those appointments, so it does affect our kind of bottom line, and that means it affects other clients, right? Because that bottom line is how we support our lower-income folks. So it is important, but I find that you have to approach clients as people first. If they’re having a problem, we can’t come at them with, like, some punitive rule. We have to come and say, “I notice this is happening, what’s going on with it? Like can you tell me more about it? Can we solve this together?” Right? “What do you need for this to stop happening?” Right?
And I have never had a situation where I have had to fire a client because of too many missed coaching [sessions]. Usually, if you just talk to people, you can figure it out. You can figure it out, and it’s fine, right? And if you have a client with executive functioning challenges, with ADHD, with autism, all these people we serve, they’re gonna occasionally forget an appointment. Occasionally they’re gonna sleep through their alarm. Are you gonna punish these people for their neurological differences the same way every other, you know, piece of society is punishing them? Right? The way their job is punishing, the way their school is punishing them, sometimes the way their family is punishing them for being different? Like, we can do better my friends, so we’re gonna do better. So that’s our policies around no-shows.
Creating a Safe and Non-Judgmental Space
And the last thing I want to talk about as a coach is my expectations for how a client shows up to coaching, okay? Basically, my expectations are that my clients show up. And as I said, even that expectation is flexible. I have had too many clients come in and feel like they still have to mask with their coach, like they have to present their best, most neurotypically masked selves to me and to my other coaches. And that’s not the client always doing it on purpose, right? But they’ve been, often, very traumatized by showing up as their quote-unquote, “authentic” neurodivergent self in a meeting!
And many people show up and they feel like they have to be professionally dressed, they have to have their camera on the whole time, they have to use their speaking words instead of their typing, they have to say they’re fine even when they’re not fine, and it’s like that’s not the point of coaching, right? I need to know what you look like on your worst day so that I can help you develop strategies for that worst day, ’cause that is the you that needs the help. It’s not the you that can show up and be like all highly masked, right?
So here are some things that I have constantly told clients and something that I think should be more discussed among other kind of service, helping professionals, whether you’re a doctor or a therapist, but if you’re doing anything remotely, but also maybe in-office, can you tell clients that it’s okay if their Zoom video is on or off? That they’re allowed to turn it off in the middle of the thing and not tell you why if they need a break, okay? Can we accept typing through the chat on a day that speech is really hard for somebody, or a mix of both? Without acting like it’s some weird, different thing, ’cause it’s not.
Can you please tell people that they are allowed to freaking stim in a coaching meeting, or move around, or pet their cat, or get up and pace, or do, you know, vocal trills? You need to do something to be comfortable in your meeting with your coach, we want you comfortable! We want you able to creatively engage in a problem-solving process, right? Comfortable sometimes means you’re gonna look neurodivergent, and it’s not usually the client’s fault that they don’t feel safe unmasking in a meeting. It’s what we do as professionals that helps them know that they are safe, right? So part of creating a safe space means being really flexible with how your client presents.
Letting people know if they’re in bed and they’re in their pj’s and their hair’s not done and they have no makeup on, that is fine. That is fine. If they’re flat on their backs with their cell phone up like this, and you have, as the helping professional, you have the weirdest angle up their nose? If they are contributing to supporting themselves it does not matter. It does not matter. Also, I don’t care what the inside of your nose looks like, I’ve seen so many of them.
So, I think it’s really important when we set up our systems as helping professionals that we are really thinking about, “What does my client need to be comfortable? What does my client need to be able to contribute to their self-care in this coaching session?” And a lot of that is have you told them that it’s okay to unmask? Don’t just assume that they know, and you might have to tell them a bunch of times. And you might have to reassure them when they show up in bed and they say, “I’m so sorry! I just didn’t — I had this thing.” It’s like no, it’s fine. Like, this is a totally reasonable and acceptable way to show up, thank you for showing up! You know, you don’t need to do anything different except for showing up.
Assume Best Intent
I think my final word on this topic is that I want helping professionals, and clients who are going to engage their services, to know that your helping professional needs to be — and we need to be, as helping professionals, right? We need to be assuming our clients’s best efforts and best intent at all times, okay? And I think this is something that a lot of us know but maybe need more practice in doing. But, for example, with the no-show policy, right? Or the person who’s laying in bed ’cause they’re so tired. It’s very easy for us to get tied up in our own lives, and sometimes especially when you’re a remote worker, right? You don’t really ever meet your clients in the flesh. Like, I have never shaken a client’s hand or anything, right? Because I work remote. Most of my clients are in the United States somewhere, but maybe thousands of miles away.
When we’re divorced from people physically, we’re in different physical spaces, I do think it’s easier to forget that people are people. And when you have a client who no-shows on you six times, or who is occasionally — looks like they’re not, “paying attention,” quote-unquote, because their eye contact is different, or who gets up and walks away in the middle of you talking because they need to pace ’cause they’re anxious, it’s easy for us to take that personally, like, “Oh, they’re not listening to me, they don’t care about me, they don’t respect me and my abilities.” And it’s like (laughs) we’re not here to make clients respect — There’s no authority in a coaching relationship especially, right? This is a co-working relationship. We’re supposed to walk with them, right?
So you have to really drop your ego around this, is my best advice for helping professionals. What the client is doing needs to support them, it does not need to support you. You need to have your own self-help mechanisms in place, right? Clients need to be able to make eye contact or not make eye contact. Type or speak. Get up and pace around, say, “I need a break,” and get off the call, right? They need to be able to do that without worrying about your emotions. Like, the coach’s emotions or the professional’s emotions. We’re here for them, that’s the whole point. So I think that a lot of our policies, when we are designing our practices, come down to, “Respect us, we are the authority, we are here to fix everything, right?”
And first of all that’s not ethical, I don’t feel like, and second of all, it makes it very easy for us to drop our empathy, even on accident, and forget that these people are people. Like, they’re people! You need to treat them with basic dignity and respect, and you need to assume good intent unless you have proof, proof, proof otherwise. Okay? You need to have your own self-care mechanisms in place for anything that comes up for you in a coaching relationship, and you need to be able to talk to your clients like human beings which means saying, “Hey, I noticed this thing happened, what’s going on?” And not assuming anything, not assuming any knowledge of what’s going on in their heads, okay?
And especially if you’re somebody who works with neurodivergent — I mean, this is true, I think for people who work with any kind of person and so it should just be a basic thing, but especially if you are working with neurodivergent people, a lot of us have different accessibility needs, and a lot of us have suppressed those needs for such a long time that when we do feel comfortable and unmasked our behaviors can start to look, quote-unquote, “weird” to neurotypical people and even to other, like, like I talked about competing access needs briefly before that, like, you know, me pacing might make my kid really stressed out. It’s not, like, my fault or my kid’s fault that we have different needs, right? I need to pace to feel less stressed, my kid needs calm and quiet to feel less stressed. Those are competing access needs, those are not somebody trying to hurt somebody else, right? It’s just a fact of the world.
Sometimes your client is going to spike you, and we need to not — And that might be because they don’t show up six times in a row, you need to assume good intent. And you need to start there, okay?
Conclusion
I hope this has been of interest or of use to some of you. If you are a helping professional yourself, I would love to hear if you have any other tips or tricks or ideas for how to improve accessibility in — especially a physical practice, because obviously, that is not my space as a business manager right now, we are a remote practice. So if you have ideas for ways to improve physical spaces for neurodivergent clients I would love to hear them, people of different access needs I would love to hear ’em. If you are an individual person who is engaged with a helping professional whether that’s a coach like us or a therapist or whatever, were there any policies that really made it difficult for you to access care? Was there anything that made it difficult for you to get what you needed out of the service that you were supposed to provide you?
If there was, I would really love to know about it. You can email me at contact@neurodiverging.com, or there’s a link below where you can leave me a voicemail, and we can put those in future episodes if we have enough feedback, I would love to know what’s going on for you. Please feel free to share this episode with anyone you know who’s designing a practice, updating their practice, or who’s just a person and would like to inform their practitioner about some ways that their practice could be more accessible, and thank you so much for listening.
Thank you again to my patrons for supporting this work, it means everything! I just really appreciate it. You can join us at patreon.com/neurodiverging. Again, three bucks a month gets you ad-free episodes and the knowledge that you are supporting lower-income clients, many of us need it. You also get early access to all of our coaching groups, discounts on all of our products, and many other cool things, so come join us, patreon.com/neurodiverging and please remember we are all in this together.